Paul Crowley ([info]ciphergoth) wrote in [info]trustmetrics,

TrustFlow FAQ

Updated 2006-04-10: this is about the old version of TrustFlow, which is no longer in operation. See the FAQ for the new version.

Frequently asked questions about TrustFlow for LiveJournal. Please note that I will be very rude to anyone who asks a question answered here so please read carefully before posting.

It doesn't work for me !

It doesn't work for me - it keeps saying it's overloaded
That's because it's overloaded. I'm sorry, there's nothing I can do about it - you'll just have to keep trying.
But it works consistently for my friend!
That's because once it's worked out the list for your friend, it keeps the results for several hours so it doesn't have to re-do the calculation.
It says I have no friends listed, but I have very many!
If you have enough friends listed, LiveJournal doesn't put them on your friends page directly. If that happens, my script won't pick them up - it'll treat it as though you have no friends. I don't plan to fix this (a) because it's work, and (b) because such people will load the computer too much. Sorry.
I get an error!
Please read the error carefully before telling me about it. If the error is "it's overloaded", see above. Otherwise, please quote the error exactly - otherwise how can I do anything about it?

What is it, anyway?

What do the results mean?
TrustFlow is making a guess at who is "near" your friends list; who might be on it, but isn't. It does this by looking at your friends list, and the friends list of your friends, and so on.
Is this based on who reads my journal, or interests, or what?
No. TrustFlow looks only at who is on whose friends list to make the determination; no other information is taken into account. In particular, it doesn't know anything about whose journals you are actually reading, or who is reading your journal, except what friends lists tell you.
Are the people listed in any order?
Yes; the first person listed is "closest".
How exactly does it determine who to list?
A description of the algorithm appeared earlier in this journal.
It doesn't work at all - it lists my worst enemy first!
That means it's working. That person is someone quite close to your circle of friends, who you would list except that you've deliberately decided not to. It can't tell that you don't like them; all it can tell is that they are close enough to your circle of friends that you would list them if you didn't feel that way.
It's almost a copy of the friends list of one of my friends!
Does that person have relatively few friends listed? They get extra influence on who it lists as a result.

Use the source, Luke!

Is source code available?
Source code is linked from here.
Can I make a mirror?
Please do, and please publicise it here - thanks! Note that you'll need a Unix system, and you'll need to be something of a Perl hacker to make it go. Also you may get more hits than you expect. However, I'll be glad to help you set it up.
You could improve the algorithm if you...
Feel free to pick up the code and play with it. For me LJ is only an example dataset, so I'm not interested in LJ-specific tweaks. I also want to be able to prove good things about it, like attack resistance, so any changes have to be meet that criterion. Finally the algorithm is conceptually very simple, and I'm keen to keep it that way.

Irritations and niggles

It lists deleted journals and communities without marking them as such
You're right, and this should be fixed. However I shan't make time to fix it now. If you want to fix it, let me know, and I'll discuss what a clean fix might look like. It's not too hard but there are issues.
I changed my friends list but it hasn't taken the change into account
It can take up to 30 hours to take these changes into account. Sorry!
Can you make it work for DeadJournal/uJournal/etc?
I'm having enough trouble supporting LJ users. However, it would be pretty easy for someone to make a mirror that worked on DJ or whatever.</strong>

Please feel free to post any questions not already answered here - thanks!


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  • 46 comments

[info]fool_in_spirit

August 15 2003, 03:40:31 UTC 8 years ago

Another reason why it might work for some people more than for others might be because of the time zone difference. I live in Europe. When I try it the morning America has still not woken up and the probability to have it working are higher than if I try on the later afternoon, when most there are more people from the states connected.
Pietro

Deleted comment

[info]ciphergoth

August 16 2003, 02:24:01 UTC 8 years ago

How many friends you have in common with someone does not influence their placement on the list at all. It only reads in someone's friends list after they've been put on the list.

[info]maliceshaw

8 years ago

[info]nnancy1964

August 16 2003, 06:34:42 UTC 8 years ago

Is this only for paid accounts? I've tried a couple of times and have gotten an error page...

[info]ciphergoth

August 16 2003, 07:25:36 UTC 8 years ago

How am I supposed to help you if you don't tell me what the error is? Did you try reading it, or this FAQ, before posting here?

[info]nnancy1964

8 years ago

[info]ciphergoth

8 years ago

[info]nnancy1964

8 years ago

[info]ciphergoth

8 years ago

[info]touchyou

August 16 2003, 22:21:24 UTC 8 years ago

Great job, bud.

[info]_trenton

August 17 2003, 13:04:08 UTC 8 years ago

Really rad program, just thought I'd let you know. :)

[info]marypcb

August 18 2003, 05:38:13 UTC 8 years ago

when it says 'please wait a minute' I read it as an indeterminate 'don't hit Refresh right this second'; perhaps if you rephrase it as 'please wait at least 60 seconds' it would reduce the load from impatient clickers like moi!

[info]guyminuslife

August 18 2003, 09:53:08 UTC 8 years ago

Something I noticed was that the closest 50 non-friends for my journal are ranked by your TrustFlow in almost-alphabetical order, meaning that a group of names (like 1-3 or 6-16) shows up in alphabetical order, and when the next group (i.e. 4-5 or 17-18) comes up, the alphabetical order starts over again at the beginning. So my groups are 1-3, 4-5, 6-16, 17-18, 19-22, 23, 24-29, 30-34, 35-38, 39, 40-42, 43, 44-50.

What I'm wondering is whether I'm reading too much into this or if this is an effect of the system that your algorithm uses--going through Friends lists in alphabetical order (the way in which they are listed) to add water to each of these people's buckets. At first glance, it's pretty obvious that in general, people earlier in the alphabet would get their buckets filled up quicker because it becomes their turn earlier, but whether or not this is what actually happens is beyond my grasp of this algorithm. So I guess my first question would be whether or not this is all in my head and I should stop now before I embarass myself.

My second question is that if my suspicion is correct and the only reason [info]beautiful_ruin is ranked ten places higher than [info]whitetrashbunny is because of the alphabetical order of their names, wouldn't it be more useful to group people together based on their degree of closeness? For example:

Current listing method: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20...

New method:
1st degree (x[1] iter): 1, 2, 3
2nd degree (x[2] iter): 4, 5
3rd degree (x[1] iter): 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16
4th degree (x[1] iter): 17, 18
5th degree (x[1] iter): 19, 20.... and so on.

Even if this is just a fluke of my friends list, I'd be interested in seeing how many iterations it takes to get someone's bucket full.

[info]ciphergoth

August 18 2003, 11:57:59 UTC 8 years ago

You have figured out my dirty secret. Yes, it does use alphabetical order. I had hoped it wouldn't cause visible distortions, but clearly it is causing them.

The correct solution is to switch to using the "continuous" version of the algorithm, which doesn't take the people on the list in any order. However, this involves solving linear equations, and I don't know how best to do it.

[info]ciphergoth

8 years ago

[info]figg

August 21 2003, 14:26:59 UTC 8 years ago

Odd results.

QUite a hight majority of my friends have [info]mistersleepless on their friends list. He has two on his.

So now, when I run trust flow, those two friends are the closest. This makes sense. Except, that technically ishikara is a lot more of my friends lists, and the two friends are only there by mistersleep's account.

So, is this a good thing or a bad thing?

Will try and be more coherent on this later,.

[info]heartxstitches

August 21 2003, 19:56:56 UTC 8 years ago

Okay soo. Whats the point of this?

[info]threepwood

August 22 2003, 08:29:26 UTC 8 years ago

To have fun? :p

Do you need an intricate description of everything before you do it?

[info]armitige3

August 22 2003, 11:37:06 UTC 8 years ago

Great program. :) My only suggestion would be to add auto-refreshing support to the page, set to auto-refresh in 60 seconds.

Otherwise, it's pretty slick.

[info]translucent

August 22 2003, 18:44:48 UTC 8 years ago


I've just noticed a couple of support requests from people thinking it's a list of people not on your friends list who read your journal, as though it's a kind of tracker.

People read less than you think. State, in big letters?

Anonymous

August 23 2003, 11:46:12 UTC 8 years ago

"Got no results. Perhaps it is not an existing LJ username, or perhaps it's a community or someone who has defined no friends? Sorry!"
i do have an lj name,it's not a community,and i have defined friends.
^does that just mean that noone else reads it?

[info]mija_aloevera

August 23 2003, 20:07:23 UTC 8 years ago

This is cool...thanks

[info]strawberrzlove

August 24 2003, 10:26:20 UTC 8 years ago

im wondering do you have closest 50 friends, stuff like that?

[info]spoiled_sk8ter

August 24 2003, 12:29:03 UTC 8 years ago

I know this might be a stupid question, but how do I get it on my Livejournal entry?

[info]6waysfromsunday

August 25 2003, 17:43:23 UTC 8 years ago

dont worry i was going to ask the same thing...

[info]cicichikk

8 years ago

[info]stephanielynch

August 29 2003, 07:58:07 UTC 8 years ago

Thanks. This was an intriguing exercise particularly since I just had an LJ hissy fit and dumped my 107 friends. lol. Then I added back 18 of them. (Can you say off my meds? snort)

So it was very interesting to see who was on my trust flow! Danke!

[info]ryb

August 30 2003, 15:13:04 UTC 8 years ago

Фигня!

[info]lilychld

August 31 2003, 22:04:54 UTC 8 years ago

Helppp....

[info]alexg

September 3 2003, 12:31:54 UTC 8 years ago

I think you should list the amount of water, or tokens, or whatever unit you're using, after each name - it'd clear up some confusion, and be rather interesting to me at least ^^

[info]ciphergoth

September 3 2003, 14:26:06 UTC 8 years ago

Yup, this is planned for the next version, and as you say it's pretty interesting. The next version is pretty cool in many ways - I'm just sorting out hosting now.

[info]alexg

8 years ago

[info]twiztidpink

September 3 2003, 13:58:04 UTC 8 years ago

Something that might help others:
I kept getting the "user not found/no defined friends" error. Tried it several times weeks apart and then today a light bulb went on in my head...

In my user info I had previously marked my friends list as "hidden".

It's pretty obvious now that the script can't find friends that no one else is supposed to know you have. ;)

Now that my blonde is showing, I have reset my settings so that my friends list is visible and I will try back later to see if the tool worked.


[info]ciphergoth

September 3 2003, 14:29:31 UTC 8 years ago

This isn't the reason. Actually, I don't know why it's failing for you! Investigating now.

You can't hide your "Friends" list, only your "Friends of" list. But TrustFlow doesn't care about your "Friends of" list, only your "Friends" list.

[info]ciphergoth

8 years ago

[info]matsuei

September 5 2003, 14:51:46 UTC 8 years ago

I finally /didn't/ get the overloaded message (after trying a half dozen or so times over a few weeks), and ended up getting this message instead:

TrustFlow for LiveJournal
Note: previous attempt to fetch info for matsuei failed. 403 Forbidden, died at /home/www/docs/trustflow/trustflow.pl line 276.

[info]meow9th

September 5 2003, 21:37:01 UTC 8 years ago

i got that too! what's up with that?

[info]keithsuperk

September 6 2003, 00:06:08 UTC 8 years ago

failed. 403 Forbidden, died at /home/www/docs/trustflow/trustflow.pl line 276.

[info]erincore

September 6 2003, 00:50:58 UTC 8 years ago

i got the same message ^^

[info]plain

September 9 2003, 06:54:22 UTC 8 years ago

the link is dead can i not use it anymore?

[info]juhgu

November 22 2005, 00:16:15 UTC 6 years ago

Is this still online somewhere?
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